[FireLeo77]

The CMS have a financial investigations unit who can look in more detail at things like pension contributions, which is another known way of diversion of income. They can work out what his “reasonably” pension contribution amount should look like. Getting them to do the investigation is the hard part!

To calculate what I was entitled to, with regard to my ex’s dividends, the CMS used his most recent financial year tax return, so you do not have to wait for new figures unless his company is so new that he hasn’t had to submit any tax returns yet.

Keep up the fighting and you know where we are if you need a pep talk xx

[FireLeo77]

Hi Nat Lou,

I’m sorry to hear you’re in this position and I hope you find all the information in this thread useful as there are various people’s journeys in seeking company dividends to be included in their CMS calculations, mine included. I’ve tried to put as much detail as possible in my story to help people such as yourself.

You’ll need to apply for a Variation to your CMS calculation, to prompt them in to including “other income” when they work out your ex’s contribution. It’s stupid that CMS doesn’t automatically take other forms of income into account on their initial calculation as it does make the whole process stressful and even longer to get a result.

You’ll also have to apply for a Variation at the same time to investigate if he is diverting his income through his wife. This is a lot more difficult to prove, and in my case, I was not able to provide evidence so it didn’t work out for me unfortunately. It is possible to go to take your case to a Public Tribunal through the County Court if you are still unhappy with the Variation calculations. I didn’t do this because I was suffering so much with stress, so I can’t say how successful Tribunals are.

My ex is a Company Director of his own Limited Company and is employed as an external contractor via his company. This is the standard way Company Directors work and they do this to avoid large tax bills, which is a legal loophole. They only have to declare they’re on minimum wage to pay less income tax. My ex and his wife have 50% each in shares and he definitely diverts his true income through his wife to make his own income appear a lot less. He too earned over £100k as a direct employee, and his still living the high life so there is no way he is earning any less. It really sucks how the CMS expect us to provide evidence of income diversion because it’s impossible for us to do this unless we break the law to do so!

My advice is to get the ball rolling with the Variation application and then phone them weekly to chase them up. Mine took a year to go through but it was all back dated to my initial application to the CMS.

I wish you the best of luck and keep strong! We’ve all got your back xx

[FireLeo77]

Regarding the arrears, I 100% agree that they are accrued due to the CMS taking so long to process claims and variations. I fail to understand how that after assessing the paying parent’s income and concluding he has the capacity to make the arrear payments they set, the CMS then allow them to reduce the arrear payments to as little as £10 a month when the arrears are £4200!! How can’t the CMS see how suspicious this is? He’s obviously fiddling the figures to be in his favour. The diversion of income variations should go straight to the financial investigations unit rather than them faffing about with their basic checks which they have admitted don’t go deep enough to find out where their ‘unearned’ income has disappeared to. It should not be up to us to instigate deeper searches via a tribunal and drag out the case further after already waiting anxiously for years. How are we even supposed to obtain evidence ourselves without having access to their business accounts. Hire a private investigator? Stake out their house and get photographic evidence of their assets? But how then do we gain evidence he has paid for those assets himself without business and bank account statements, and further evidence of how their diverted income is being transferred back to him. As ex’s we know how they do it, we know their personalities, that they are living well and how devious they can be. This should be enough for the CMS to look deeper in to their financial dealings, beyond the reduced dividends they have chosen to pay themselves to appear as though their income is less. Surely part of the ‘service’ which we paid for when we first started our claims should include these detailed investigations as standard from the start of the process instead of us requesting these additional variations which drag out the process so significantly for long, which is detrimental to our children’s welfare and our mental health.

My ex has chosen to alienate himself from his children and has become estranged to them.  I have no experience of going through the courts, but my story is similar to yours. They used to go to him every other weekend although they never wanted to go. They said that their Dad didn’t do anything with them and they missed their own bedrooms, friends and weekend activities when they had to go. I used to buy them little presents to come home to with the purpose of cheering them up when they came home! I always encouraged the relationship between them and their father, and I never tried to turn them against him. The father’s day, birthday and Christmas gifts were only provided to him because I chose and sent them on behalf of the kids. They weren’t interested in helping choose anything themselves. He bought a house over an hours car journey away which means he can’t just pop over to see them, and vice versa, not that either party want to. During COVID lockdown he chose not to see them at all and when lockdown ended he wasn’t interested in resuming his weekends with them (much to their relief!). As my kids are now 16 and 18, I leave it to them to decide if they want to speak or see him so any relationship they had with him has broken down to nothing. My 16yr old has no interest in his Dad and doesn’t want to see him (he has Asperger’s so sees things in black and white), but my 18yr old is more sensitive and feels hurt that his father doesn’t make any effort towards a relationship. At the end of the day, it’s his loss in missing out on his two amazing children’s lives and I feel blessed to have them in mine even though it can be hard getting through the rough patches as a single parent! I’m thankful that, with mine being older, and not far off finishing their full time education, the stress of dealing with the CMS and their father will end. Even though I will need to help them through university myself! Hopefully they will be able to work part time to help themselves with that.

Sorry that’s another essay from me, haha! Its never a short story for us is it xx

[FireLeo77]

Hi all,

I’ve not posted in a while so thought I’d check in. Sorry to hear people still having ongoing struggles with their NRPs paying up and CMS problems.

When I last posted my ex was appealing the variation outcome which was in my favour, of course. I also had a diversion of income case going which came back as non-conclusive because they stated their wasn’t enough available evidence.

The outcome of his appeal was that his payments were reduced as they used his 22/23 tax return. I strongly believe he diverted a proportion of his dividends to his wife during that period as at the start of 22/23 he was aware CMS were going to be accessing his tax return. The 21/22 tax return showed his income via dividends was 90k and the 22/23 one showed an income of 45k despite his lifestyle staying the same. His wife doesn’t work so she can’t be funding the lifestyle at all. He’s obviously engineered his income to look like he earns a reasonable wage but I know it’s not right. CMS said I couldn’t do anything else about it so I considered at the time going to a public tribunal. I felt so deflated that he’d managed to take control and had ‘won’ his appeal I lost the fight in me to take it further. It’s been going on such a long time I decided to take it for what it is. It is after all better than the £25 per week he was paying, and he has to pay arrears too. I felt angry that he ‘got one over’ on me and it effected my depression significantly so felt I couldn’t face dragging it out any longer.

At my next annual review we’ll see if he’s decreased his income any further and then I’ll appeal and go to tribunal if necessary, because at that stage it should be even more obvious he’s diverting his dividends. For now, me and the kids are doing ok and I’m able to provide everything they need. I’ve been able to buy a car which has been a godsend to family life too. Regardless of this, I still get anxious every month worrying about my ex doing something to reduce his payments or not pay at all. It’s like PTSD! It’s so horrible feeling controlled by him even after going through the variation.

Meanwhile, he is still buying new cars, going on holidays and showing off to the kids all his new expensive purchases. He stopped buying them birthday and Christmas presents because (he told them) he has to give me maintenance. How pathetic! There’s a good reason these people are our ex’s!

I’m better off than I was, so I am really glad I did go through the CMS which improved the quality of life for my kids so I would urge anyone thinking about it to just go for it. It can be a very long process and it’s an emotional rollercoaster but the sooner you start your claim, the sooner you’ll get your outcome. My experience is that, like I said before, I have this constant anxiety and I still feel anger and somewhat controlled by my ex, but ultimately I am financially much better off.

I’m glad this forum post is still helping people to hear real scenarios of other parents going through similar processes with child maintenance. I send love and good luck to all reading this xx

[FireLeo77]

Hi all,

Just an update on how things are going for me post variation decision. As I mentioned above somewhere, my ex requested a mandatory reconsideration based on him disagreeing with the tax return they used in their calculation. I haven’t had an outcome on that yet, but today, I received a letter from CMS notifying me that my ex has now requested a variation too! This also appears to be based on him believing they have used the wrong tax return. It’s very strange he’s waited so long to dispute this as the letters sent out when my variation was in process last October clearly stated the figures they were using for the calculation. I wonder if it is just a desperate attempt to reduce the payments, or if there is any truth in it?! There appears to be no end to the child maintenance headache!

On a much more pleasant note, I just had an interview with Gingerbread about my experiences with my variation, the CMS and this Forum thread. I’m so glad my story and everyone else’s stories are on here to help other single parents who are looking for information on this topic. There’s plenty of information out there on the variations process, but when I first started my application I couldn’t find any real life experiences to give me an idea of what it’s like to go through it. I’m really proud of what we’ve created. Much love and thanks to everyone who has shared their thoughts and experiences on here. It’s been tremendously helpful to me on my journey xxx

[FireLeo77]

This is such fantastic news, 2Flowers!!!!! I’m so happy for you! Yes, that 20p does count!

That’s great he’s agreed to the proposed repayment plan too 👍

<span style=”text-align: center;”>Congratulations! 🎉🎉🎉</span>

[FireLeo77]

Gardencrazy, I really have no idea how they work the percentages, but a quick search on Google suggests that the average cost of raising a child to 18 in the UK is about £938 per month. So, for me with 2 children, this is £1876 per month which is 120% of my salary

[FireLeo77]

Hahaha!! 😂

[FireLeo77]

My ex sees it, and has described it to the kids as, a ‘war against your mum’. It’s just a competition he needs to ‘win’ so he can prove how ‘manly’ he is. This is how I imagine it is for these poor high earning egocentric company directors:

Winning = Living life of luxury while enjoying looking down and laughing at his ex struggling regardless of it meaning his kids are not enjoying the same quality of life as him, while showing off to them how much he earns and how much cool stuff he has.

Losing = Still living a life of luxury with only having to pay a small percentage of his income to contribute to his kids upbringing. Massively damaged ego and infuriated because he was defeated. Constant irritating worry that his ex is spending the maintenance money all on herself (because that’s what he would do). Can use the excuse “I can’t afford it because I have to pay your mum” when it comes to buying presents for the kids, which is what my ex told my son on his 18th a few weeks ago.

[FireLeo77]

Oh dear, I’ve managed to write yet another essay 😂

[FireLeo77]

Hi everyone,

I believe NRPs should pay 12% of their income for one child, and 16% for two. I don’t know how they calculate it if there’s more than two, or if there’s other factors such as children they have to pay maintenance for from other partners. I know what you’re saying Gardencrazy, it’s very strange how they work out that one child is 12% and then an additional child only warrants an extra 4%, as it is with my situation. I don’t know why you only get 11%. Maybe to do with how often they stay with him per year or something?

My ex should be pleased he only has to pay 16% of his salary, compared to pretty much 100% I pay from my salary! 16% of my salary alone wouldn’t be enough to keep them fed.

I know how you feel 2Flowers. It was the same for me. Every time I got through to speak to someone on the phone they were very nice and reassuring, but the estimations of dates they gave me always came and passed. Then I would talk to someone else, who would say they had a bit more information and they’d sort out the problem so it’d be back on track. The cycle continued like that for months.

Interesting to hear about the diversion of income via over payment of pension contributions. I put in a request for them to look in to diversion of income when I initially applied for the variation of additional income so they could check money being diverted through his new wife, but the outcome was that there wasn’t sufficient evidence. Very difficult to get evidence of suspected diversions as it’s not likely an opportunity will arise to scrutinise his accounts.

My ex has now put in for a mandatory reconsideration because he thinks they used the wrong tax return for the annual review. It’ll be interesting to see if there is a sudden drop to the most recent 22/23 return as this may indicate an intentional diversion as his lifestyle hasn’t changed during the past year. I called CMS and was told that if the drop in dividends he pays himself is a large quantity, they can investigate him for diversion again but it’ll be more in depth as they’ll have the evidence of the sudden drop in income. So, I’m anxiously waiting to hear the outcome of this and back to daily checks of my account online and listening to the “music of sadness” for an hour when I have to call them. There’s just no end to the worry and stress! Fortunately, he’s still paying as per the variation outcome, but it’s frightening knowing that this can potentially. I think I have developed PTSD! I might have to start saving to pay a solicitor, or private investigator, for assistance if we go to tribunal further down the line.

[FireLeo77]

That’s fantastic Claire!! Such a relief for you!

Did you have to pinch yourself to check you weren’t dreaming? X

[FireLeo77]

Claire, this is great to hear!! And brilliant that your MSP helped and you got some compensation too!

My ex has obviously been in contact with the CMS and negotiated a payment plan, so his arrears are now broken down to £1200 per month over about 18 months, rather than over the two large payments as previously mentioned. Just letting you all know that this can happen. I am still over the moon with my outcome! But still anxious and logging on to check every day. Just habit now I guess! My annual review is now due as it has almost been a year since I first submitted my application. I hope nothing changes.

Looking forward to hearing more good news from all you other ladies!

[FireLeo77]

Hi all,

Yesterday I was getting ready to call CMS for my weekly 1hr wait listening to the “music of sadness”, as I’ve been calling it, before I’d eventually get through to someone who would tell me that they don’t have any updates on my case. Before I called I did the usual log on to my online account to check nothing had changed on there. I was obsoletely gobsmacked to see there was a change!!!! My expected payment for May has increased from £102 to £4k!!! The system must have only just changed as I had been logging on throughout the day, as I do every day, to check for such a scenario. At the time there was no message to explain what had happened, so I was of course very excited but also worried it was just a glitch. This morning I had a new letter waiting on my account to show that the variation is now complete!

So, the CMS discovered my ex had received £54k dividends from his limited company in the past year. They have added his previously declared minimum wage salary of £8k and worked out his new weekly payment is going to be £177, up from the £25pw he has previously been paying.

They have also instructed him to pay arrears back dated to the date I first applied for them to calculate the child maintenance for me, which was back in May last year. So, he has to pay just over £8k in arrears. They have split this over two months so he should pay half in May and the other half in June. He will then be expected to pay the new monthly amount of £780.

This is obviously very welcome news! But, I still won’t believe it until the moneys in my account. I’m sure he will try and get out of it somehow. I suppose that the trouble is for him that they know what he can afford now so there’s no way of him getting out of it unless he’s not concerned about them taking action against him.  After the stress of waiting and the uncertainty of what will happen it’s not surprising I feel anxious about it I guess!

I still believe that the variation has not captured all of his income as I’m certain he passes dividends to his new wife, but there is an ongoing diversion of income investigation in place which may expose this. I am extremely happy with the outcome from the variation anyway and I will have enough money to get my kids everything they are long overdue, starting with new beds, clothes, shoes and laptops! I can’t wait to be able to broaden their horizons by taking them on day trips (and even a holiday!) to show them what the life is like outside of our town!

I will of course, keep you all updated on any changes and hopefully I’ll be able to confirm I have received my first payment successfully next month!

I hope this has reassured those who are still waiting that there is indeed light at the end of the tunnel.

[FireLeo77]

Cocobeach, did you hear back from the financial investigation unit?

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