Child Arrangements Order Query
10 August 2021 at 11:14 am #57404
I have my children every alternate weekend, plus Fathers Day and the Festive period. Any additional holiday time, is set in the order as:
Any such further contact as may be agreed between the parties in writing.
I arranged in July that I’ll have the children for 2 separate weeks in August, the first week and the last week (commencing Mon 23rd Aug). This was a conversation over text that was agreed to by the ex. However, after some issues between us last week, out of spite, she’s now gone back on her word and refused my holiday with the boys on the 23rd, saying they will go to nursery instead.
What rights do I have here? Surely it can’t be that easy to just change your mind? I have something booked for the week too..10 August 2021 at 11:34 am #57407
unfortunately she can disagree. I have an order with similar wordings like that, and frankly anything that is not clearly stated in the order as an arrangement, my ex will not allow it. that’s why I specifically asked court, can I have kids for 7 nights in a row in the summer, for 1 week, 2 weeks…. had to be very specific and this is written down in the order.
so in your situation, what you can consider doing is applying to court to vary/change your order, to include 1 week, 2 weeks in the summer holidays etc. it sucks but when you have unreasonable ex partners, this seems to be only option. you would have to attend mediation first.10 August 2021 at 11:58 am #57410
Well, in ways, I hope it does go to court, because when a judge see’s she’s prevented the children having a family holiday out of spite, I can’t imagine it’ll look good for her…13 August 2021 at 11:35 pm #57511
Yes, unfortunately if it is not specifically noted in your order she can do that. But as you have said, this is unfair to you and the children, and will not reflect well on her in court if it was brought up.
My order is mapped out to say specific amounts of time, e.g. he has him every alternate thurs-Mon plus half of all the holiday periods. We do have to agree which dates in the holidays we will both have, usually alternating weeks.
I wouldn’t advise anyone to go through the court system unless they really have to, it’s stressful and costly. Mediation would be a better alternative x18 August 2021 at 10:39 am #57626
My CAO states that the children have to spend 50% of summer school holidays with me, 50/50 also for Christmas and Easter – they spend alternate with her. Failure to comply with a CAO includes if you have lost money (as in booked a holiday) and once she agreed to the dates I would think that the court could either change the CAO to firm up the time they spend with you or sanction her because she agreed to the dates and you have spent money for the holiday.
Worth looking into, I did this because my ex was not complying with the CAO, but only then found out that as she has moved to NI (same if it’s Scotland) it’s not worth the paper it’s written on, there is nothing the court in England will do! My ex uses the children as weapons still 3 years later, never misses an opportunity to slander me to the children etc while I never say a bad word about her to them. Our daughters live with me, our son lives with her so she is actually preventing them spending time with each other when she regularly refuses to send my son over even when I have taken the girls over to see them.
If you do it yourself I think the court fee is around £285.19 August 2021 at 1:28 pm #57720
<span style=”font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,serif; color: #333333;”>Thanks for the replies. So I’ll add some context here so you understand the nonsense I’m dealing with. Also note that the ex is a controlling narcissist (and unfortunately hasn’t changed).</span>
<span style=”font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,serif; color: #333333;”>We agreed I’ll have the boys for 2 separate weeks in August, 2nd – 6th (starting from 31st July as she didn’t want them on her weekend and my weekend followed so I’d have them until 8th Aug) and 23rd – 27th (with my weekend being 21st and I’d have them from then). The caveat to which is that, during the first week, she insisted I take them to nursery (for an 11 hour day!) on 5th and 6th because she “didn’t want them to miss out”. If I refused, she wouldn’t allow me to have them at all for the week.</span>
<span style=”font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,serif; color: #333333;”>On the 3rd, my youngest was sick. I told the nursery and they wouldn’t allow him in for 48 hours after his last sickness anyway. Also, my other son was sick on Friday 6th in the afternoon, so he’d have been sent home from nursery anyway. I told my ex I wasn’t taking them to nursery (she told me I’m NOT to ever speak to the nursery again because I don’t pay for childcare…. I pay £700 in child maintenance a month and she gets her childcare paid for by Universal Credits) and i’ll keep them with me (I had them for my weekend on 7th and 8th anyway). Plus she was working on 5th & 6th anyway, so it made sense. But no.. in her eyes, she never agreed it, therefore, she was going to come and collect them before work and drop them at a family members for the day, just so she could keep control, and then drop them back to me Friday night, as it’s my weekend. I refused. She called the Police and they didn’t want to know. At 10.30pm, she then attempted to break into my flat with her friends to try and take the boys from their sleep. Police were called again. Completely dismissed the attempted break in and were looking at ways of how to make her happy. How is this behaviour ok, at any level?!</span>
<span style=”font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,serif; color: #333333;”>Anyway, they asked if she wanted them back for the weekend (even though it was my weekend) and she said no, because she had other plans. So it was left as she collects Sunday late afternoon, instead of evening. She’s since filed a C79 enforcement order for breach of CAO, stating that she was scared I wouldn’t hand the boys back on Sunday (which I did). And has said I can’t have the children any additional time and we stick to the court order weekends only.</span>
<span style=”font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,serif; color: #333333;”>To add, I’ve had the boys for 6 out of 7 of the last weekends – my ex hasn’t asked to swap any weekends, she “gives up” her weekends so she can go out drinking or spend time with various guys she’s dating. Her excuse? She has them 24/7 and needs a break. However, that 24/7 involves the boys being at nursery 3 days a week for 11 hours a day…</span>
<span style=”font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,serif; color: #333333;”>So now the week of the 23rd, I can’t have them. I’d planned to stay with my partners family on the coast, we had day trips planned, the boys were so looking forward to it. But out of spite, she’s refusing them a family holiday. I have an elder son from a previous relationship, who my boys only see on alternate weekends, but I have him for these 2 weeks, so that’s bonding time that they now can’t have. It’s absolutely ridiculous.</span>
<span style=”font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,serif; color: #333333;”>I don’t understand the point of taking me to court if she’s confirmed I can still have them every other weekend? However, it works in my favour as it’s an opportunity to get a variation of the order. The problem I have, is that I don’t want specific “dates” for holidays. If I suggest having in the order that it states a week in August and a week in April for example… what will happen is that it’ll be a week in those months that SHE decides, because she has to have that control. This is my only sticking point. Unless I say the first week of August or something?</span>19 August 2021 at 1:29 pm #57721
No idea why it’s formatted all weird! Apologies!20 August 2021 at 3:31 pm #57829
When is the enforcement hearing? If kids are still with you, then highly likely court will order you to hand them over. And they might make you jump through hoops to prove kids are safe with you.
In court you could ask for 1 week or 2 week block in the summer for example, and both parents to give eachother notice and arrange dates. Would suggest you ask for 1 week in easter, xmas holidays. If you ever think about taking them in trips abroad,you can ask court for permission if you want.20 August 2021 at 3:41 pm #57832
I haven’t been given a date as yet, just confirmation that she’s applied for this order through the court. I anticipate i’ll get some paperwork through in the next day or 2. I handed the boys back on that Sunday, because that was when I was due to have them until… I have them again this weekend.
She messaged me today to confirm she’s revoking consent for this coming week for the family getaway. Advising she’s sticking to the court order (re weekends). Though the court order also states additional time as agreed, which she’s ignoring?
The problem with a week or 2 block in summer, which I agree with you with… means she will dictate when those week or 2 week blocks will be, as she HAS to have that control… So it’ll be times that will only suit her.