Child arrangement order
3 October 2020 at 9:54 pm #44536
Does anyone have any experience of this. My husband was arrested for assaulting me, when he was about to be released the officer rang and she asked about him seeing the children. I said I didn’t intend to stop him seeing them as that would only spit the children, but third party pick up and drop off would have to be arranged. She then rang back to say he had been released and said he wouldn’t see the children, he would go via the courts. Fast forward 2wks, I have received papers for an emergency child arrangement order, it says that I have prevented him from seeing the children, which I have not. Enclosed with his application was a copy of his bail conditions, there were 3, 2 I knew of don’t come to house, no contact with me. The 3rd was for child arrangements to be made via a solicitor. I feel like I’m in a lot of trouble for something I didn’t know about. I can’t afford solicitors. Any advice please4 October 2020 at 2:11 pm #44544
I took my ex to court to get a child arrangement order earlier this year, I did it myself without a solicitor.
You should be getting a call from Cafcas who will go through everything with you and arrange anything you need for the court including separate rooms and screens in court if needed. My court order includes us doing pick up and drop offs in a supermarket carpark, him not being allowed to phone, text or message me unless it’s an emergency all other communication must be via email and he is not allowed to go near my house.
it has been a good thing for me everything is laid out and he now knows he can’t harrass me or drop the kids off whenever he feels like. It has been in place since February this year and so far so good.11 October 2020 at 9:05 am #44723
Who issued the emergency CAO? He used a solicitor from prison to argue that you what? Wouldn’t bring them to the jail house or threatened him with it? Either way- doesn’t make sense? Sure it’s done been done by local services more due the issue of his arrest for assault? Can you have a call with him and ask also ask the police officer you spoke with? And you are right. You’ve done nothing wrong. Courts can’t host a guilty until you prove innocent on child issues. They are barely operating right now- and what has been called an emergency? The need for a date maybe? Happy to find coms to look at it for you?11 October 2020 at 9:18 am #44724
Also Picklepie- great to hear your empowered story. I think the key difference for Twin is that she has no idea what’s going on? Court and a CAO might be avoidable for them with a friendly agreement as it sounded Twin was happy with. For the wrong couples CAO’s can be costly and crippling and if the abuse has been dealt with and buried it can bring it all up again and not help parents move on. Pickle is rightly fearing something she believes she doesn’t need and also not understanding the paperwork and how it’s been issued!
I have a CAO and like you- do you mind my asking do you have a Non Mol attached also or did you have to go through a fact find or final hearing? Who set those terms for your ex? Did you manage that with him and consent to the order or did you have a magistrate rule on those proposals? Who’s idea was the no comms and not near house and supermarket etc? Cafcass? Mind my asking why you took him? And why you think it’s working well for you?
i just ask as I get a hint he was abusive perhaps in some way. Like my ex. He took me and lost and back fired against him big time. He’s just started breaking it though… so asking cos I need to see how someone else understands it! And what I do if my son is kept? I’m not filing a court order and sitting with my thumb up my arse till he brings him back that’s for sure?! Do you know what it is? Would really appreciate your take and advice maybe? I’ve got my plan in place today as he’s due back tonight but mother’s instincts! He’s going to do it again. And it’s not about him causing harm to our son by keeping him. I just refuse to have spent a year fighting against a piece of paper I managed to turn in my favour to now find after 3 months that it’s not worth the paper it’s written on?11 October 2020 at 10:28 am #44725
I don’t have a non molestation order although I was considering it. My ex was and is controlling and emotionally abusive, physically abusive on a couple of occasions. After his repeated threats to ‘take the children off me’ I applied for the child arrangement order. I detailed most of the abuse i suffered and his harassment of myself and my older kids in the form which he obviously didn’t like he also wasn’t aware how many times i had reported him to the police. His biggest fear is other people finding out the truth about him.
As the judge put in the order that he is not allowed to phone or message me unless it’s an emergency relating to the children and all everyday contact is to be by email along with the stipulation that all hand overs are to be at a local supermarket carpark so he has no reason to be at my house i didn’t think a non mol order was necessary. These conditions mean if i see him driving repeatedly passed my house or he resumes his phone harassment i can report him to the court or call the police and action can be taken because these is no longer any question about his intentions. The judge put these in place at the recommendation of the cafcass officer. So far this is all working, although the phone calls have started again, but i just ignore them unless he children are with him. We now have 60/40 ish access so he has them more nights than he used to but they physically reside with me which means he still has to pay maintenance i get to apply for tax credits and child benefit which he is also not happy about. He hasn’t refused to bring the kids back although he likes to be late, they have refused to go to him a few times but i make sure i turn up with them and it’s his choice to let them stay with me or tell them they have to go with him (they usually just want to stay here because i have better internet, and my food is nicer so no real reason)
The order has been in place since February and it’s so much better than it used to be, I had gotten used to a certain level of harassment i suppose and now it has improved much more than i expected it would I doubt it will last but I’m enjoying it while i can. The difference now though is i have been away from him for five years and this is the first time i have actually been free of his constant harassment, i feel better and for the first time i’m not scared of him or what he may or may not do to me.11 October 2020 at 11:28 am #44728
That’s such a positive story regarding your success of the system. Obviously a negative story and a tragedy that we find ourselves needing them to start with! For me I’m curious that he threatened to take them from you so much that you got the order and that he isn’t still using that threat of the children but playing out differently somehow? My abuse is just a poster campaign for Coercive Control and the need for PD12J which sadly is lagging in uniting mothers ultimately with their children in terms of abuse affects. My ex threatened court, took me, threw the most theatrical and costly shit storm my way all over my ability to mother and his full time care order (from never having taken a single day off even from birth, bath or bedtime). He used the court to lie about working from home facilitate fulltime fatherhood (when he runs a factory!) and created The most indescribable allegations against me drowning me in solicitors letters threatening emergency protection orders and calling Social services on me, I had the police over, he went to town. Was brutal. Utterly brutal and worse than attacks when I was with him which now sadly feel like a walk in the park. I recall being in tears when a police officer paid me a house visit at some stupid time of night and found me with a kitchen floor full of court work preparing the case and drinking tap water with a burnt oven meal I was trying to get down me. In tear I said and I still mean- I would rather he break every bone in my body then this abuse through the court system playing insanity! You can’t wear the court scars because no one sees them unless experienced it also. And it makes me feel very thankful that for the right people it works and has a place. Was the wrong place for me. And I’ll be honest – it scares me that it’s not the right olace for my ex? He’s not scared and will just do what he wants to get me and use my baby in whichever way now I’ve left. Financials an ongoing fight and the next court one now but the scary one which kicked in last week was medical concerns which I thought the court had quashed! He’s relentless and don’t know what I do. He refused to return him last week until he’d taken him to the doctor. I don’t care for me it’s his psychological protection now. This medical bullshit I don’t know where to start. Thinking a specific issues order maybe. But the courts broken and unlikely as an extension. Sound like you kicked LIP butt! The police don’t have copies of our court orders though they only keep Non Mols and depending who you get on the phone varies the response you get. I hear ‘civil matter’ a lot. Most helpful but there’s no clear protocol for non return without a power for police direction stipulated? Seems like you might understand or know more maybe?11 October 2020 at 11:53 am #44730
Your point about his fear- people knowing about him. I’ve turned my whole life into this and been participating in all the calls for evidence for reform and contributing disclosure with the justice board. My local MP is the under minister for the bill and currently working on the implementation plan for actioning the Domestic Abuse Bill and coercive control as a crime. The practical solutions are very weak and there appears to be absolutely no proposals for credible deterrents or even reprimands other than court, conviction maybe, fine or prison. And with the courts broken it’s just not hopeful. I’d be interested to know what you think overall but there are adversarial works going on also because this issue is so important for future generations of children. I had considered if a ‘name and shame local register‘ of some sorts? Nothing sinister but perhaps anyone found to have unreasonably denied child maintenance? Parents who don’t pay? Type of thing? The other real thing with this is image and I did very honestly say to my ex that I would be forced to take this to the press if he didn’t deter his efforts at one point!! I scripted the headlines and told him the BBC contact I had lined up and I believe he knows that i mean it. As a last resort knowing I’d ultimately lost faith in the whole thing. But I’m keeping the faith and I also don’t like whistle blowing for that purpose. This issue needs a steered future. So I’ll save the BBC when I have the answers! I’m curious did you find litigating and the whole thing come naturally to you?11 October 2020 at 3:28 pm #44736
I have been in and out of court with him over one thing and another for over 5 years, took me nearly 4 years to get a financial settlement and divorce and almost two more years to get him to sell the family home which i moved out of with the kids under police advice. I have had the same solicitor through the whole process which was helpful. Throughout this time i have had the constant insults and abuse, car being driven at me, been tailgated for miles, followed by him and his friends, 30 plus phone calls/texts a day, screaming at me in the street about how i am the biggest mistake he ever made and his favourite threat of ‘i know more about you than you think i do’. he used to tell me he had a file on me about all the things i’ve done and he was going to use it to take the kids from me. He also used to follow my two older children home from school, the school were informed of the situation and they said if he’s seen within school grounds they will call the police. I decided i’d had enough and called his bluff, i knew i haven’t done anything wrong and i put in the paperwork for the child arrangement order. My solicitor said i could easily do it myself but she was there for advice if i needed her. It was difficult sitting in court with him and hearing the lies spilling out of his mouth and i cried a lot but the judge and cafcass saw through the majority of it. There are a couple of amendments which i would like but I’ll sort that out next year.
Because his mum was footing his legal bills he could afford to keep delaying things which is why it took so long to get anywhere, although he does love the kids they are just another way of trying to control me and the thing he hates the most is other people know about his behaviour including the teachers at kids school.
I have no doubt it will not stay like this forever but the difference is now I’m no longer scared of him in fact i feel nothing for him at all i don’t even hate him he’s nothing to me and i won’t let him destroy me or ruin anymore of my life.